I wouldn’t fight for an idea Jack, that’s neocon territory. I would fight for other people, people whose lives are being destroyed by an overwhelmingly superior force. What bothers me is that if I enlisted in my own country’s armed forces, I would be lining up with rather than against the aggressor nation. I’d rather go to jail thanks.

As for collateral damage, Israel figures it’s own is always going to be a factor of at least 4 and probably closer to 10 times less than it’s targets, and they can live with that. Small price to pay for setting up a repressive imperial garrison state across other people’s lands, I guess.

It look like Israel’s supporters are deserving the ship:

British split with Bush as Israeli tanks roll in
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1826969,00.html

And not only would this give an opportunity to wage Jihad on behalf of the Ummah and the Socialist Proterlriate, but it will also give you a chance to abandon your mundane life as an examinations officer at Sydney U – you will finally add some purpose and meaning to your life (not to mention plenty of fresh air and sunshine in the great outdoors). Oh and can you take Addamo et al with you?

and don’t forget your rifle…
http://www.flurl.com/uploaded/rifle_vs_tank_3601.html

Thanks for your response.

I’m not talking about the current conflict and perhaps my analogy was bad. I’m trying to understand exactly what ideas are worth fighting for, that’s all, especially when one has to allow for the ‘collateral damage’ that war entails.

Cheers
Jack

More recently there was the example of Ken O’Keeffe and the Iraqi human shields. The Blair/Devine cheerleader element had a lot of fun with him, but how does his stance look now? Like George Galloway, the tonnes of fake mud thrown at him has washed away, and his apocalyptic warnings have turned out a deal more prescient than any of the approved, 2nd hand talking points mustered by the Reggies and Veronicas of the press, who nowadays must hold their noses as they ‘do their job’, much more difficult you would think with the blood of all those innocent people sluicing around them. It’s a dirty job but…

Jack, I’m afraid I had even more trouble with your post than you did with mine. Are you saying that the Israeli invasion of Lebanon may be compared to the fight against Hitler? If so, come right out and say it, eh?

The ‘freedom we take for granted every day’ is at risk I believe, as are the prospects of that freedom in any future my children might inhabit, but my conviction is that Israel and the US are a more clear and present danger to them than any poor, dispossessed, understandably aggrieved local militias in the Middle East or anywhere else.

In any conflict you must look to your own backyard first and in mine I find uncritical support for racism, illegal occupation and genocide. How is it that the Prime Minister of our country has not yet been asked whether diplomatic and economic sanctions against Israel have been considered by Cabinet? Would the accidental Israeli bombing of a busload of Australian citizens have a decisive effect on the presence or absence of such deliberations? If so, the question is why should such calculations wait upon such a disaster?

Paul Sheehan bravely dipped his toe into anti-Zionist waters the other week in the SMH. The ABC has taken a deep breath and gone in relatively hard on Israeli apparatchiks lately; it’s encouraging to see Antony given a run and Maxine M gave a Mr Sneh some unaccustomed grief the other night on Lateline. Some Australian journos understand that their historical reputations will depend on how they reacted to this clearest of Israeli offences against decency and international law.

This belated volte-face is happening elsewhere too; Tom Hayden has just come out in Counterpunch to decry his own ‘capture’ by the Israeli lobby over the years and now warns of it’s power to lead Americans to the abyss in Iran and beyond. Ex-Reagan staffer Paul Craig Roberts is talking of his shame at being an American, aware of the world’s apprehension of Israeli control of American policy and his own people’s utter ignorance of the same; an ignorance largely cultivated by the same lobby that has Congress sitting mute.

The walls of protection Zionists have built around their plans have been crumbling for a while but whole chunks are thudding to the ground now in the wake of the Mearsheimer/Walt piece. Antony could not have released his book at a more opportune time – looking forward to reading it.

If we were involved in another battle against a new Nazi (say) threat to the world then would you sign up to fight for the freedom that we take for granted every day?

There is a very good reason why we refer to armed forces as Defense forces as opposed to Attack Forces.

Ask yourself the question, are we being attacked? Is there a threat of attack? Is there a threat of invasion? If the answer is no, then that should be self explanatory.

It’s quite bizarre listening to people refer to the bombing of Dresden as rational that seeing as we’ve committed atrocities before, then there is no harm in doing it again.