Best-selling journalist Antony Loewenstein trav­els across Afghanistan, Pakistan, Haiti, Papua New Guinea, the United States, Britain, Greece, and Australia to witness the reality of disaster capitalism. He discovers how companies such as G4S, Serco, and Halliburton cash in on or­ganized misery in a hidden world of privatized detention centers, militarized private security, aid profiteering, and destructive mining.

Disaster has become big business. Talking to immigrants stuck in limbo in Britain or visiting immigration centers in America, Loewenstein maps the secret networks formed to help cor­porations bleed what profits they can from economic crisis. He debates with Western contractors in Afghanistan, meets the locals in post-earthquake Haiti, and in Greece finds a country at the mercy of vulture profiteers. In Papua New Guinea, he sees a local commu­nity forced to rebel against predatory resource companies and NGOs.

What emerges through Loewenstein’s re­porting is a dark history of multinational corpo­rations that, with the aid of media and political elites, have grown more powerful than national governments. In the twenty-first century, the vulnerable have become the world’s most valu­able commodity. Disaster Capitalism is published by Verso in 2015 and in paperback in January 2017.

Profits_of_doom_cover_350Vulture capitalism has seen the corporation become more powerful than the state, and yet its work is often done by stealth, supported by political and media elites. The result is privatised wars and outsourced detention centres, mining companies pillaging precious land in developing countries and struggling nations invaded by NGOs and the corporate dollar. Best-selling journalist Antony Loewenstein travels to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Haiti, Papua New Guinea and across Australia to witness the reality of this largely hidden world of privatised detention centres, outsourced aid, destructive resource wars and militarized private security. Who is involved and why? Can it be stopped? What are the alternatives in a globalised world? Profits of Doom, published in 2013 and released in an updated edition in 2014, challenges the fundamentals of our unsustainable way of life and the money-making imperatives driving it. It is released in an updated edition in 2014.
forgodssakecover Four Australian thinkers come together to ask and answer the big questions, such as: What is the nature of the universe? Doesn't religion cause most of the conflict in the world? And Where do we find hope?   We are introduced to different belief systems – Judaism, Christianity, Islam – and to the argument that atheism, like organised religion, has its own compelling logic. And we gain insight into the life events that led each author to their current position.   Jane Caro flirted briefly with spiritual belief, inspired by 19th century literary heroines such as Elizabeth Gaskell and the Bronte sisters. Antony Loewenstein is proudly culturally, yet unconventionally, Jewish. Simon Smart is firmly and resolutely a Christian, but one who has had some of his most profound spiritual moments while surfing. Rachel Woodlock grew up in the alternative embrace of Baha'i belief but became entranced by its older parent religion, Islam.   Provocative, informative and passionately argued, For God's Sakepublished in 2013, encourages us to accept religious differences, but to also challenge more vigorously the beliefs that create discord.  
After Zionism, published in 2012 and 2013 with co-editor Ahmed Moor, brings together some of the world s leading thinkers on the Middle East question to dissect the century-long conflict between Zionism and the Palestinians, and to explore possible forms of a one-state solution. Time has run out for the two-state solution because of the unending and permanent Jewish colonization of Palestinian land. Although deep mistrust exists on both sides of the conflict, growing numbers of Palestinians and Israelis, Jews and Arabs are working together to forge a different, unified future. Progressive and realist ideas are at last gaining a foothold in the discourse, while those influenced by the colonial era have been discredited or abandoned. Whatever the political solution may be, Palestinian and Israeli lives are intertwined, enmeshed, irrevocably. This daring and timely collection includes essays by Omar Barghouti, Jonathan Cook, Joseph Dana, Jeremiah Haber, Jeff Halper, Ghada Karmi, Antony Loewenstein, Saree Makdisi, John Mearsheimer, Ahmed Moor, Ilan Pappe, Sara Roy and Phil Weiss.
The 2008 financial crisis opened the door for a bold, progressive social movement. But despite widespread revulsion at economic inequity and political opportunism, after the crash very little has changed. Has the Left failed? What agenda should progressives pursue? And what alternatives do they dare to imagine? Left Turn, published by Melbourne University Press in 2012 and co-edited with Jeff Sparrow, is aimed at the many Australians disillusioned with the political process. It includes passionate and challenging contributions by a diverse range of writers, thinkers and politicians, from Larissa Berendht and Christos Tsiolkas to Guy Rundle and Lee Rhiannon. These essays offer perspectives largely excluded from the mainstream. They offer possibilities for resistance and for a renewed struggle for change.
The Blogging Revolution, released by Melbourne University Press in 2008, is a colourful and revelatory account of bloggers around the globe why live and write under repressive regimes - many of them risking their lives in doing so. Antony Loewenstein's travels take him to private parties in Iran and Egypt, internet cafes in Saudi Arabia and Damascus, to the homes of Cuban dissidents and into newspaper offices in Beijing, where he discovers the ways in which the internet is threatening the ruld of governments. Through first-hand investigations, he reveals the complicity of Western multinationals in assisting the restriction of information in these countries and how bloggers are leading the charge for change. The blogging revolution is a superb examination about the nature of repression in the twenty-first century and the power of brave individuals to overcome it. It was released in an updated edition in 2011, post the Arab revolutions, and an updated Indian print version in 2011.
The best-selling book on the Israel/Palestine conflict, My Israel Question - on Jewish identity, the Zionist lobby, reporting from Palestine and future Middle East directions - was released by Melbourne University Press in 2006. A new, updated edition was released in 2007 (and reprinted again in 2008). The book was short-listed for the 2007 NSW Premier's Literary Award. Another fully updated, third edition was published in 2009. It was released in all e-book formats in 2011. An updated and translated edition was published in Arabic in 2012.

Replacing one hatred for another

The following letter appears in today’s Australian newspaper:

Mark Steyn’s article (“If only they had refused to indulge Arafat“, Opinion, 26/7) demonstrates that anti-semitism has not disappeared from the mindset of sections of the Right – it has simply transformed into a malignant bigotry against Muslim Arabs.

Of course, not all the features of classic anti-semitism are present in this new anti-Arab bigotry. Steyn and his ilk do not argue that Arabs control international finance, for example. However, his allegation that Palestinian terrorists drank the blood of the assassinated Jordanian prime minister in 1971 has an eerie parallel in the persistent medieval belief that Jews slaughtered Christian children and drank their blood in accordance with their own depraved rituals.

Like anti-semitism, the new bigotry makes no distinction between Arabs. Whether they be Palestinian or Lebanese, Shiite or Sunni, in essence they are all the same. They all share the same murderous and unappeasable bloodlust towards Jews. It is pointless to try to negotiate with them because they have no interest in compromise, only in total victory. Their genocidal jihadism is ineradicable and can only be countered with violence.

Like his fellow anti-Arab bigots, Steyn has no interest in the historical or political context except where it supports his position. He amply demonstrates Cardinal Newman’s remark that although some people’s opinions may radically change, their casts of minds remain fundamentally the same.
Nick Laffey
Oxley, ACT

Meanwhile, Australia’s Foreign Minister thinks that supporters of Israel “don’t get out and make their arguments enough.” He adds:

“ ‘Israel is at fault’, ‘Israel should use proportionate force not disproportionate force’, ‘Israel is breaching international standards of human rights’, hang on, what have these people got to say about Hezbollah, about Syria, about Iran? Why do they single out Israel all the time?

“So our position is just based on an objective analysis of the facts, look if people think we are pro-Israel fair enough. I don’t mind being called pro-Israeli, I wouldn’t wear that as a badge of shame by the way. I’ve been to Israel on several occasions and it is a laudable and impressive country.

Finally, a Lebanese Australian writes in the New York Times about the current war in the Middle East:

More is at stake now than the fate of Lebanon. If the West does not persuade Israel to stop its attacks, that failure will add to a creeping sense that, in its fight with Islamic fundamentalism, the West has abandoned its claim to moral superiority based on respect for human rights and international law, and is pursuing instead a war based increasingly on tribal solidarity. What a tragedy this would be, especially for those of us who crave a modern, peaceful Middle East. And what a triumph for the varied strains of bin Ladenism — Muslim, Christian and Jewish alike.

47 comments ↪
  • Addamo

    I think Nick Laffey hits the nail on the head.

    The right do seem to shift the obejct of their hatred from one to the toher, depending on which they happen to hate the most at the time. This also allows them to label their opponents as rascist for not agreeing with them.

    A perfect example is how they defended the war in Iraq by rationalising that it was all abtou freeing the oppressed Iraqi people, especially the Kurds. The goblins at TB especily llove to talk abtou the Kurds when confronted with inconvenient arguements against the war.

    When the Iraqis fought back, these same people went back to referrign to the Iraqis as Hajis, filthy came jockey and terrorists.

    I think the sudden affection the right has discovered for Israel (formerly a left cuase) is fueled by the fact that Israel is in a positino to kill Arabs, whcih makes them a valuable resource.

    In teh absence of the animosity the right has for arabs and Muslims, I suspect that Israel and jews woud find themslevss at the poity end of the stick again.

  • Adam

    The first half of this article is another example of how Israel views Arabs. This is a classic example of Israel’s arrogance in failing to accept Israel is currently occupying illegally Palestinian land. Once I heard my University lecturer who said “The biggest world disaster ever is Israel, and there will nothing and what we see today is just the beginning of Israel’s ending”. I have to admit before I was not sure about his comments but now I can see what he really meant.

    Israel uses its own history (as a victim) to bully the Middle East, and as we all know all bullies meet their humiliation. Like they have started to say “The oppressed and the abused are oppressing and abusing” which is spot on in explaining Israel today. How long is the world going to accept their excuse of their holocaust in justifying their illegal (against any law) conflict which has no ending?

    The following statement:

    They all share the same murderous and unappeasable bloodlust towards Jews. It is pointless to try to negotiate with them because they have no interest in compromise, only in total victory. Their genocidal jihadism is ineradicable and can only be countered with violence.

    So if the Arabs hate the Jew’s so much then what is Israel still doing there? Do they not want to move to a different part of the world far away from the Arabs? The reality is that Israel does not care about public opinion from around the world and it does what it wants much thanks to USA for its total commitment and support. Israel is also aware that if that all the hatred from the Arabs is because of its own doing. The world witnesses the birth of another holocaust but the difference is from the last, that the Arab victims over centuries have been painted and branded as terrorists; even their children and women are not spared. With the help of US and UK this holocaust is being played down and hidden from the world. This conflict today is just a glimpse of the new holocaust but over years the Palestinians have been squeezed into the biggest concentration camp in Palestine the world has ever seen. But the world remains silent as the bully and its big brother (US) are patrolling the playground.

    We see the start of Israel’s end.

  • M.Mayes

    With the help of US and UK this holocaust is being played down and hidden from the world.

    Interesting point Adam, I would therefore direct the attention of any pro-israeli posters to this point.

    Had during the holocaust against the jews in Germany been played down by western media and governments (and infact had the western countries been arming Germany for this purpose) how would you (any pro-israel poster) feel about this, and can you see the simlarity between this hypothetical and the current circumstance?

  • Addamo

    Excellent point M.

    To this day, many Jews point the accusatory finger at the West for not doing enough and for ignoring what was being doen to their ancestors in Germany during WWII. Lo and behold, the same treatment is being dished out to the Arabs, onyl worse, beacause the western media is insisting that the Arabs brought this on themselves.

    Can anyone imagine the hyerical reaction of someone were to suggest that teh Jews brought the Holocaust upin themselves?

  • M.Mayes

    Indeed, its quite absurd but people who disagree with the holocaust get put in jail so i wouldnt be suprised if someone said that and ended up in jail their point of view never to be heard again.

    really makes you question these ideas today, given the discourse of the holocaust to date being backed up by legal systems in numerous countries (including one of our own supreme courts gave a historian a gag order for his POV of the holocaust) how much of it is true

    (note: i am not insinuating that the holocaust never happened, however the intellectual appeal of how it is possible is alluring)

  • Adam

    people who disagree with the holocaust get put in jail

    So how does freedom of speech fit in with this?

    To me it seems as if they are hiding something!

  • M.Mayes

    it does, ofcourse though it is all legitimate because the countries this has happened in (including australia) dont actually have the right to freedom of speech (unlike america who has it in the bill of rights) its more just commonly accepted that in a democratic society freedom of speech is gaurenteed (unless you are talking about something at odds with zionism, in which case yu can still be penalised), it would be very interesting to be able to hear exactly what this australian was given a gag order for.

  • Addamo

    To me it seems as if they are hiding something!

    It's certainly consistent with that notion.

    I believe Zundel (or what is Irving) who challenged not whether the Holocaust happened, but the official count of the victims, was even prevented from mentioning in court that the original commemorative plaque at Auschwitz stated that 4 million had been killed there. The plaque has since been changed to reflect that only 1.5 million had actually been killed there.

    The argument was that in spite of the revised number, the historical total number of victims remained unchanged at 6 million. Yet in spite of this fact (i.e. the plaque being revised) he was not allowed to enter this into court as evidence. Pretty Orwellian stuff.

    If this is true, then what because of the unaccounted for 2.5 million?

  • orang

    They joined the Navy.

    …to see the world, and what did they see, they saw the sea.

  • M.Mayes

    If this is true, then what because of the unaccounted for 2.5 million?

    I can see the officials contemplating the plaque revision now, "hmm well we know that 4 million werent killed there now, so we have to lower it, but we couldnt possibly say that it was any less than 1 million otherwise it might not get seen as severe anymore"

  • viva peace

    Addamo/M.Mayers

    Ah, how I love the smell of fresh Holocuast denial first thing in the morning. Keep it up, David Duke is proud.

  • Adam

    Whether they be Palestinian or Lebanese, Shiite or Sunni, in essence they are all the same. They all share the same murderous and unappeasable bloodlust towards Jews.

    Nick Laffey (from above article)

    Then how does Nick Laffey explain this? This is not just any accident but a well orcastraded hit at the local Arab population in Lebanon. How does Israel intend to win the mass public around the world who witness these war crimes and effects of a terrorist state. There is no way people will forgive Israel especially if they are thinking that their history will get them through this one, unfortunately the world has seen the reality of Israel.

    Here in the UK there are over 8 mass anti-Israel demonstration happening around parts of the UK especially in London and I will make sure I am part of these anti-Israel demonstration and I will make sure I make as many people aware of these demonstrations.

    Please visit this website – a real eye opener

  • Captain

    Its funny that the country that wiped out its Jewish population has made it a crime to deny that they did this. Yet the sick fuck minds here consider that "they are hiding something". Maybe Adam is ahmedinejd.

  • Adam

    No need to use such bad language Captain Scalawag but then again you entitled to your own opinion unlike people are NOT entitled to any opinion relating to the Holocaust, ah I just wonder why?

    Maybe Captain Scalawag is Hitler (or even better, a descendant from him)

  • Captain

    Well, some countries realise the danger of not acknowledging reality. Of course as you are psychotic you probably need to defer to those Islamist voices in your head.

  • Captain

    Oh and did I say you were a sick fuck for comparing Jews to Hitler?

  • Adam

    those Islamist voices in your head

    Not everyone is like you hearing evil voices in their heads. Just because it happens more than often to you it does not mean it happens to everyone. I assume you wet you bed quite often Captain Scalawag.

    Oh and did I say you were a sick fuck for comparing Jews to Hitler?

    Well, I can’t help it if Israel has taken Hitler and Germany as their role model. Clear evidence is the Palestinian concentration camp which has been setup by evil state Israel, and the mass rape of another country. If I had a birds-eye image of Germany (under Hitler) and had a recent birds-eye image of Israel (today) it would be hard for me to play “spot the difference in both images”.

    How can you live with the guilt of building Israel on the blood of Arab Palestinians, I cannot even start to imagine this as it makes me shiver here in the UK but yet it has no affect on Israelis living in Israel. Israel is evil and I don’t think the world has seen and will anything like this ever again.

  • Addamo_01

    Hey Captain,

    Nice to have our resident troll chime in when the passage looked safe for you to jump onto your favorite subject. As I suspect, you have been lurking on this thread but too ashamed to come out and express your joy at the needless suffering in Lebanon, preferring to let Captain do that for you.

    Ah, how I love the smell of fresh Holocuast denial first thing in the morning. Keep it up, David Duke is proud.

    Viva you are so predictable and actually, very sad. Believe it or not, I posted this with you in mind, wondering if it would lure out of the shadows and you took the bait like a trained seal, just as I thought you would.

    Any remotely liberate person would clearly there was no denial on whatsoever on the part of M.Mayers or myself, but it proves that the mere mention of the world Holocaust makes a membrane cover your eyes, and blinds you temporarilyy as you go in for the kill.

    Maybe Adam is ahmedinejd.

    And maybe Captain is a descendent of Stalin.

  • Addamo_01

    Last post was directed at Viva, not Captain.

  • M.Mayes

    Ah, how I love the smell of fresh Holocuast denial first thing in the morning. Keep it up, David Duke is proud.

    thats funny i could have sworn i said previously stated (in this thread mind you) that i do not deny the holocaust… hang on a sec oh there it is incase you missed it

    (note: i am not insinuating that the holocaust never happened, however the intellectual appeal of how it is possible is alluring)

    fancy that.

    so tell me again where i denied the holocaust rather than addressed an intellectual issue with no conclusion on part of myself?

  • Addamo

    Don;t even bother M.Mayes,

    Viva has a pathological knee jerk reponse to the word Holocaust being even mentioned within a 5 km radius. He loves to shadow box with his won demons.

    I too have never denied the Holocaust, but Viva has repeatedly insisted that I am a Holocaust denier.

  • M.Mayes

    Its funny that the country that wiped out its Jewish population has made it a crime to deny that they did this. Yet the sick fuck minds here consider that “they are hiding something”. Maybe Adam is ahmedinejd.

    Dear The Village Idiot,

    you may have noticed that nobody here has actually agreed with what these jailed historians have said (mind you as historians they know a fuck load more than you as assumably a 12y.o boy knows, so who you are to contradict them is beyond me perhaps you should leave that to the politicians you unchallengably agree with. back to the point of these brackets, you are a twit in comparison to a historian), but rather everyone (with the exception of your intellectually challenged friend viva peace [ironic name]) has agreed that it is an intellectual idea that the holocaust MAY NOT HAVE existed, rather than didnt exist.

    Well, some countries realise the danger of not acknowledging reality.

    reality in history is quite debatable, as historians have said (which are far more intellectual then you captan) "History is written by the winners"

    also captain if reality is so blatently obvious that a moron like yourself could grasp it then why would these countries care to go through the cost of legal methods to silence those who present an alternative opinion. but i guess as an outstanding moron such as yourself you never look at the motives behind why officials say things rather than listening blindy to what they say.

  • M.Mayes

    Cheers addamo, but im sure captan and viva get a slight ego boost from their ignorant posts on here, its always fun to posts things they couldnt hope to argue against to serve as a means to deflate the for mentioned ego. = ) good times.

  • Adam

    as usual, Captain (and alike) have their heads up where the sun don't shine.

  • Addamo

    Well, some countries realise the danger of not acknowledging reality.

    Then why stop at the Holocuast? Why not imprison peole for denial or say, the Armenian massare?

    Why not imprison people for having differing oinions on whatahppened in WWII and Vietnam?

    REality is self sustaining. It does not need to be propped up by draconian laws that gag peopel from discussing the subject at hand.

    But getting back to Zundel's quesrion. If I understand correctly, he never denied the Holocaust, but merely disputed the numbers that were killed. What is most disturbing is this:

    These trials deny the defnendent the right to introduce any evidence into court or even questino the Holocasut in any way. They have only one option, either denounce their position and aknowledge the official story, or go to jail. what the hell is going on here?

    Zundel wanted to point out that in 1948, the commemorative plaque at Auschwitz stated that approximately 4 million people had been killed there:
    http://www.chapelhill.indymedia.org/uploads/ausch

    But in 1990, that plaque was replaced with one that said approximately 1.5 peoepl had been killed there:
    http://www.chapelhill.indymedia.org/uploads/ausch

    I have no idea if this is true or a fraud, but surely this begs the question, if the deaths at Auschwitz drop by a whopping 2.5 million, and the figure of 6 million dead Jew remains the same, what becase of the 2.5 millin?

    BTW. Viva and company. This does not disput that the Holocaust took place, or nor does it prove that the figure of 6 million is wrong.

    The frightening thing is that Zundel was not allowed to even allowed to submit this issue to the court that was trying him. Truly Orwellian.

  • Ros

    Addamo, how could you quote Zundel. Aside from the fact that he is a WHITE SUPREMACIST

    Zundel

    “ Wherever we look, we White people find ourselves besieged by peoples of other races who compete aggressively against us for jobs, food, housing, education and above all – power”

    He believes that UFOS are secret Nazi weapons hidden in Antartica, or Neu-Schwabenland

    “For the truly dedicated UFO researcher, SAMISDAT is embarking upon a

    magnificent and awe-inspiring experience! We are negotiating with several international airlines and chartered air carriers in regard to our planned investigation of the "Inner Earth Theory" coupled with our search for "Hitler's Flying Saucer Bases in Antarctica." Our 'launching pad' for which we are also negotiating will be located in Rio de Janeiro or Buenos Aires. This site will be the gathering place for an International UFO Convention which is scheduled to take place some time in 1979 or 1980. From this convention site, those who are interested and financially able may join Christof Friedrich and members of a specially-selected SAMISDAT research team on the Antarctic Expedition who will not only search for Hitler's Saucer Bases in German Antarctica, but who will further attempt to settle the controversy about Admiral Byrd's "Flight into the Polar Opening" by actually flying over the South Pole! Our tentative flight path is here shown. It is anticipated that a specially-prepared, long-range jet will be available for the Antarctic Expedition's polar flight.”

    Then of course he asks for money.

    Then there is this quote from Zundel. I think I know who Adam and Mayes and Orang read. Just take out Germans during the second WW2 and substitute Arabs and you have a ready made modern version of Jew hating.

    "The Jews of the world have a Holocaust coming, and all the gruesome lies that they have told about people like Germans during the Second World War—all those grotesque Spielberg-like distortions of what really took place—one day will come back to haunt Jews, and I want to not be around when that happens."

  • Addamo_01

    Ros,

    Addamo, how could you quote Zundel.

    Good question. Where did I quote him?

    Did you bother reading my post? I am not sure if it was Zundel's or irving court proceedings this took place in.

    The test of justice and democracy is when it involves treating fairly those we most dispise.

    Just take out Germans during the second WW2 and substitute Arabs and you have a ready made modern version of Jew hating.

    Do yo ureally have to sink to such ad hominems and straw men Ros. Come on, you are much too intelligent for that.

    But your post does show just how easily Israeli appologists come apart when asked confronting questions. What the hell does Zundel's theory of a hollow earth have to do with anything anyone has said? I am not defending Zundel or his theories.

    My point was, why is forbidden in European courts, for the defendent to enter evidence supporting his/her argument when charges of Holocuast denial are brought? Does it make sense? Is there any logic to ir?

    Does one need to be a Holocaust denier to ask what happened to the unaccounted for 2.5 million Jews that were originally supposed to have died at Auschewitz?

    Is that not a fair question?

    Just take out Germans during the second WW2 and substitute Arabs and you have a ready made modern version of Jew hating.

    How about this? Just take Jews and substitute Arabs and you have the present situation in Palestiine.

  • viva peace

    M.Mayes/Addamo

    You are both antisemites and Holocaust-deniers simple as that. If you were otherwise, after twentysomething posts we would have see you either display that you know, or are interested in finding out, just how that 6 million figure is calculated. You might also ask WHY the 4 million figure was placed at Auschwitz. You might ask where Auschwitz actually is. Who controlled that place after WW2; when the plaque was erected and why; when and why the number was revised; an so on.

    However, as your raison d'etre is only EVER to indulge your pathology, you do not want any acquaintance with the facts that expose so mercilessly that you are both antisemites and Holocaust-deniers.

    I hope this helps.

  • M.Mayes

    You are both antisemites and Holocaust-deniers simple as that.

    Ill assume from this that you didnt actually read anything apart from the words Holocaust and 'Did not exist'

    And dont get me wrong i can see where you could get to where you are now if that is all you read, I believe the holocaust is real, I simply said that it was intriguing that people have formulated arguements to the contrary (and get jailed for it).

    As I charged captain in a previous thread, find 1 comment of mine on here that suggests I am an anti-semite and let me know when you do.

  • Addamo_01

    M.Mayes

    You too have noticed how our psychologically dysfunctional friend Viva reacts to the word Holocaust? I'm only guessing, but I suspect it's part of some narcissistic obsession with his own sense of entitlement.

    Forget asking Viva to provide evidence of any statement you made that proves his point. He won't. I offered him $20,000 to prove I had made such statements and he failed to do so. He must we awfully wealthy.

    Viva,

    May I suggest that YOU seek help……..and quickly? There may still be time.

    Two weeks ago, you said the whole international community was on Israel's side. Wherever you got your information from, it must be an awful mess wiping egg off your face. No doubt you and your colleagues expects this to be a re-enactment fo the 6 day war. So much for that.

    No we are not anti-semites.

    If you were otherwise, after twentysomething posts we would have see you either display that you know, or are interested in finding out, just how that 6 million figure is calculated.

    Gee, I only asked the question about three times. Yes I am asking, but you seem loathed to provide the response. I was only made aware of these plaques recently and it came a quite a surprise. Simply put, the revision would not have been made without a sound reason and without the Jewish community, local and international, being consulted.

    Are you objecting to the question being posed. Is that in itself anti-semitic, seeing as it could land you in jail in Germany or France?

    So feel free to explain away. I stated no uncertain terms Viva that this quandary was proof of nothing, that is does NOT challenge the official figure of the number that were killed in WWII and certainly does NOT dispute that it did happen. The again, I an only guess how difficult it is to read when your eyes roll into the back of your head and you start to shake uncontrollably.

    As is usually the case when anyone dares to use the word Holocaust beyond the context you consider acceptable, you just see blood in the water and thrash around like a shark on angel dust, hoping to take a bite out of someone.

    you do not want any acquaintance with the facts that expose so mercilessly that you are both antisemites and Holocaust-deniers.

    When you do return from seeing your self induced coma, and get your prescription renewed, both M.Mayes wil be waiting for your explanation.

    Are you in the entertainment business Viva by any chance. You really do seem to have a findness for the theatrical and melodramatic.

    You could just as easily have given us the explanation rather than giving us a first hand look at what bipolar disorder looks like.

  • M.Mayes

    Nicely put.

  • Comical_Ali

    what a lovely bunch of people. And a lovely debate too. perhaps Antony could devote a book on the topic – "My Holocaust Question."

  • viva peace

    Addamo

    I can't believe that you continue to come back for more. You claim to be ignorant of how the 6 million number is derived, despite having banged this drum for at least six months that I am aware of. So how on earth can you ask:

    Does one need to be a Holocaust denier to ask what happened to the unaccounted for 2.5 million Jews

    You claim "it" did happen. Yet how can you know what "it" is when you claim you have no idea what "it" is?

  • M.Mayes

    what a lovely bunch of people. And a lovely debate too. perhaps Antony could devote a book on the topic – “My Holocaust Question.”

    Now comical you know you have a certain degree of my respect but this wasnt a debate until viva peace chimed in at the word holocaust without taking the time to realise nobody here has once said that they believe the holocaust was false.

  • Addamo_01

    what a lovely bunch of people. And a lovely debate too. perhaps Antony could devote a book on the topic – “My Holocaust Question.”

    Indeed Comical, those evil questions, Look at where it's gotten us.

    If only someone didn't ask the question, "is the earth really round?"

    If only someone hadn't asked the question, "how do we know man can't fly?"

    We'd all be so much better off wouldn't we?

  • Addamo_01

    Viva,

    Do you go out of your way to look like an idiot to make the rest of us feel better?

    You claim to be ignorant of how the 6 million number is derived, despite having banged this drum for at least six months that I am aware of.

    Let's see. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that it did happen. Countless personal accounts form people who were there. I happen to know a couple of there people. Other who lost their entire families to the event. All of them wonderful and inspirational people I might add.

    There are of course, the photographic records and the evidence kept by the Germans themselves at the time, being meticulous record keepers.

    So it's easy to conclude that the existence of the event is beyond dispute.

    Yet how can you know what “it” is when you claim you have no idea what “it” is?

    Are you playing one of your little "go find an atlas" games here Viva. I asked you earlier to explain the 2.5 million disparity. Why do coy?

    And do you agree that someone accused of Holocaust denial should be prevented from even mentioning this in a court of law in Europe?

  • Comical_Ali

    Those Jooo-lovers of money grubbing yids fame. First they came after truth-seekers & dissenters like Ernst Zundell and David Irving and now they are after Antony Loewenstein. Oh the censorship! Oh the crushing of dissent!! Oh those Nazis! oh those fascists!

  • Addamo_01

    Care to address the question Comical, or are you opting for your baboon routine?

  • M.Mayes

    There are of course, the photographic records and the evidence kept by the Germans themselves at the time, being meticulous record keepers.

    Although there are no records of Hitler actually ordering the death of any jews. (whether that be because he was smart in trying to cover his ass internationally, or if that was because he never needed to [his incited violence being enough to insinuate it])

  • M.Mayes

    truth-seekers & dissenters like Ernst Zundell and David Irving

    I prefer to call them Historians with alternative theories.

    I'd like to think we are in a society of freedom of thought and speech. What do you care if some historian has a wacko idea to try disprove the holocaust, what do courts worldwide care? If the truth is so undeniable, then why not let people express ludicrous opinions.

    (sounds somewhat like Zionists not ever accepting the idea of debate, what are they afraid of if their cause is so true and pure.)

    on that note I will say that the far left is just as idiotic as the far right in terms of debate acceptance (Right-wing "What does he know, he's just a leftwing hippy" Left-wing "Dont listen to that facist pig") Both far sides need to get over themselves, get off their high horse and accept debate and common standing (if present).

  • Captain

    I prefer to call them Historians with alternative theories.

    Mayes, you asked for an example of antisemitism. There you go. Irving was discredited in his litigation against Lipstdadt as as a liar and antisemite. His work has no historical merit. He is a fraud. You giving him any status whatsoever is pretty compelling stuff.

    Also, reviving this notion that there is some ambiguity about who ordered Jewish deaths is another antisemitic trick. Have you read Mein Kampf? It is beyond question that Hitler ordered it. Its like questioning whether the earth is spherical, you can do it, but those who do are nutjobs.

  • Addamo_01

    Have you read Mein Kampf Captain?

    Personaly I coudl not imagine myself ever wanting to. Who wants to probe the mind of sick a deranged individual like Hitler?

    Its like questioning whether the earth is spherical, you can do it, but those who do are nutjobs.

    Just like those who believe that Adam and Even rode to work on the back of dinosaurs. But they aren't imprisoned for it are they?

  • Captain

    Yes I have read Mein Kampf, in its original German. Funnily extracts keep appearing here.

    You fail to understand that ideas do kill and as a society we employ censorship. We are not allowed to incite violence and in some countries, you are not allowed to defame the dead. This is the provision that the Germans rely upon.

    You are not defaming the dead by questioning the bible.

  • Comical_Ali

    I prefer to call them Historians with alternative theories….I’d like to think we are in a society of freedom of thought and speech…(sounds somewhat like Zionists not ever accepting the idea of debate, what are they afraid of if their cause is so true and pure.)

    I rest my case.

    on that note I will say that the far left is just as idiotic as the far right in terms of debate acceptance

    Really? You've obviously been on the recieving end from both.

  • Addamo_01

    Captain,

    Why am I not surprised you read German? Much of what you post here would probably smoke a lot more sense if it were translated to German.

    Ideas do not kill. Perhaps you have been a little too seduced Mein Kampf, and believe that the individual does not have choice in what he or she does. Censorship is the tool of the oppressor. It is enforced by those who fear they have something to lose by allowing free expression to be exercised.

    Denying the Holocaust is not defaming the dead, for it would require that individual to accept those deaths were real in the first place. Major contradiction there.

    Try again.

    We are not allowed to incite violence and in some countries, you are not allowed to defame the dead.

    Again, the trouble with both of these is that they are open to interpretation by those in power. They are only necessary to those who's power or influence is at stake.

    You are not defaming the dead by questioning the bible.

    Clever. Jesus dies in the Bible you moron.

    I rest my case.

    Is that your new one loner for the day Comical? Putting the cart before the horse again I see. Yo don't get to rest your case until you have one. We are still waiting for you to come up with one.

  • viva peace

    Addamo/M.Mayer

    STILL no evidence that you know what the Holocaust is or any evidence that you are not Holocaust-deniers. You both are vile.

  • M.Mayes

    STILL no evidence that you know what the Holocaust is or any evidence that you are not Holocaust-deniers. You both are vile.

    You cant be serious,

    note: i am not insinuating that the holocaust never happened

    to quote myself…

    You on the other hand have not provided any evidence to suggest that I AM a holocaust denier… Given that you were the one making the claim, it's on you to provide such evidence, or shut up. I'm really glad you brought the whole lack of evidence thing up actually, you successfully made yourself look like an idiot.

    As for what the holocaust was, in short, the killing of millions of jews by the Nazi regime.

    I am really not sure why you thought ANYTHING you wrote in that post backed up your arguement, or even why you posted it to begin with, but here we are. I have given you answers, be so kind as to give me mine.