Robert Fisk, The Independent, July 27:
Is it possible - is it conceivable - that Israel is losing its war in Lebanon?
From this hill village in the south of the country, I am watching the clouds of brown and black smoke rising from its latest disaster in the Lebanese town of Bint Jbeil: up to 13 Israeli soldiers dead, and others surrounded, after a devastating ambush by Hizbollah guerrillas in what was supposed to be a successful Israeli military advance against a “terrorist centre”.
To my left smoke rises too, over the town of Khiam, where a smashed United Nations outpost remains the only memorial to the four UN soldiers - most of them decapitated by an American-made missile on Tuesday - killed by the Israeli air force.
Indian soldiers of the UN army in southern Lebanon, visibly moved by the horror of bringing their Canadian, Fijian, Chinese and Austrian comrades back in at least 20 pieces from the clearly marked UN post next to Khiam prison, left their remains at Marjayoun hospital yesterday.
In past years, I have spent hours with their comrades in this UN position, which is clearly marked in white and blue paint, with the UN’s pale blue flag opposite the Israeli frontier. Their duty was to report on all they saw: the ruthless Hizbollah missile fire out of Khiam and the brutal Israeli response against the civilians of Lebanon.
Is this why they had to die, after being targeted by the Israelis for eight hours, their officers pleading to the Israeli Defence Forces that they cease fire? An American-made Israeli helicopter saw to that.
Meanwhile, Iraq’s Prime Minister displays a modicum of independence on Israel’s war in Lebanon and he’s labelled an “anti-Semite” by the Democratic Party chairman Howard Dean (heading a party on the road to irrelevance). “We don’t need to spend $200 and $300 and $500 billion bringing democracy to Iraq to turn it over to people who believe that Israel doesn’t have a right to defend itself and who refuse to condemn Hezbollah”, he said.
What an ungrateful little puppet.
People like Fisk, Rees, et al want to wear being
labelled an “anti-Semite” as badge of honour. Some of those most “stung” by that label, often are. The proof of that is their very consitently selective public “rage”.
Whatever hopes Olmert held out for a repeat of the six day war, seem to have gone up in smoke. He and his clueless minions made the Rumsfeldian assumption that if Israel were to cause terrible suffering to the population, they would rise up and demand the removal of Hizbullah. The reality on the ground is the exact opposite.
Israel now realises it is in serious danger of losing the war. They’re freaking out about this, of course, because they’re deathly afraid that if Israel is seen to fail, and fail badly, against Hizbullah, everybody and their Palestinian uncle will get it into their heads that they can take a crack at the Zionist entity.
Reading between the lines of the official propaganda that the IDF is struggling just to produce symbolic victories — they seem to be “securing” the same objectives over and over again.
The Israelis are being squeezed between two relentless pressures. One is the desire to avoid taking too many casualties, and the other is the amount of time left to achieve even their minimal objectives. The less time, the more casualties — and the more firepower that will be unloaded on Lebanon to try to keep those casualties as low as possible. More firepower means more scenes of civilian death and destruction. The Arab puppet regimes in Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan. can see perfectly clearly what’s coming, which is probably why they all bailed out yesterday.
Here is an interesting chronology of events to show how things are going for them:
“We’re definitely in there, we control it, though there are still pockets of resistance.”
IDF spokesman Capt. Mitch Pilcer
On the battle for Bint Jbeil
Monday July 24, 2006
“Overall we are now stabilizing the situation to completely take over the village.”
IDF spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Itzik Ronen
On the battle for Bint Jbeil
Tuesday, July 25, 2006
Hizbollah guerrillas and advancing Israeli troops fought pitched battles at the entrance to a key town in south Lebanon on Wednesday and Arab television stations said up to 13 Israeli soldiers had been killed.
Reuters
Fighting rages in south Lebanon
Wednesday July 26, 2006
A spokesman for the IDF . . . acknowledged that contrary to earlier statements, Israel has not gained control of the Lebanese border town.”The village is absolutely not under control.”
IDF spokesman Maj. Zvika Golan
On the battle for Bint Jbeil
Wednesday July 26, 2006
Today’s fierce daylong battles centered on the village of Maroun al-Ras and the town of Bint Jbeil, a longtime Hezbollah stronghold. The Israeli army had earlier asserted that its troops were in control of both hilltop enclaves.
Newsday
Israel Faces Fierce Resistance From Hezbollah
Wednesday July 26, 2006
Leo, I am not sure what you are trying to say, but I am sure it is relevant.
Anyway, which parts of the Fisk piece are you refuting?
Especially seeing as it’s entirely consistent with what Uri Avnery is saying:
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article14220.htm
Thanks for the link, Addamo.
(You may be interested in this Zunes piece if you have not already seen it.)
Hi Leo,
I came across your name, the then your blog via this article:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/the-dissenter-who-dared-to-ask-why/2006/07/28/1153816381576.html
I look forward to reading your book.
Regarding Israel possibly losing the war in Lebanon, I see parallels with Iraq.
Israel will win the ‘major combat operation’, or will declare that it has won with proof being all the destruction in that state, but win the peace?
No, Israel will not win the peace by bombs and bullets, much like the US did not and has not in Iraq.
May your sword be strong and brimming with ink, well met sir.
Regs, Shaggy
Cheers leftvegdrunk,
It stands to reaspon doesn’t it? We have seen the very same thing for the last thre years in Iraq, yet the right still maintain that terrosists comprise some finite number that will become extinct by applied violence.
How deluded can you get?
Hezbollah is determined to defeat Israel on its own doorstep and it really has got Israel in a state of fear. Even if the Hezbollah strong holds are invaded and controlled by Israel and lets just say Israel are successful in defining a buffer zone, Hezbollah will still emerge and attack the Soldiers and Israel without fail inflicting more casualties. So in any sense Hezbollah has already seen victory which is why it’s determined to keep IDF soldiers bogged down.
The longer the war takes the more casualties Israel will suffer and the more public opinion will change against Israel. The whole purpose for this war was to increase security for Israel, but did it matter how this was achieved? Would it not have been easier if Israel accepted international public opinion and immediately accepted a ceasefire in which all the pressure would fall on Hezbollah to halt its attacks (and the Arab countries would ensure Hezbollah would agree to a ceasefire and a prisoner swap) but unfortunately Israel had suspected its military might would crush Hezbollah within 48 hours, which now not the case.
Israel has certainly dominated the news in a negative light (and not as it has hoped, to glow as victorious) and even the public inside Israel have started to question and have doubts to how this will end. Because either way you look at it, Israel has lost this war because in the next 2 weeks the best Israel can do is to win some ground into Lebanon, but no way can Israel disarm Hezbollah.
Hezbollah is a young force only established in 2000 (or near bout’s) and has become a true fierce for which even Israel and its sophisticated military might cannot destroy.
As Uri Avnery said:
From a politician perspective, Olmert needs to walk away from this with something to show for it, whatever that might be.
Zbigniew Brzezinski, speaking at a forum sponsored by the New America Foundation, had this to say about the Israeli invasion of Lebanon:
The Israelis are so desperate that they are now turning to big brother, the US, to come along and save their arse and pride. Ken Silverstein reports in Harper’s, that U.S. officials are actively discussing the possibility of U.S. military intervention:
A well-connected former CIA officer has told me that the Bush Administration is in fact considering exactly such a deployment. … According to the former official, Israel and the United States are currently discussing a large American role in exactly such a ‘multinational’ deployment, and some top administration officials, along with senior civilians at the Pentagon, are receptive to the idea.
It seems that Israel’s soldiers are too precious to be used in such a casualty-heavy operation. They much prefer it when the other side isn’t able to shoot back at them. Let’s get the Americans to fix our mess and well go back to doing what we do best, bullying Palestinian civilians and bulldozing houses.
As a muslim, who is also capable of critisizing the arab governments and nations (although im not arab),I firstly want to congratulate Antony for being able to come out and tlak about injustices which occur in the sad world we live in today.
When will people learn that bombing others and using force will never, ever get a nation to comply by their wishes? You cannot bring democracy to a nation by killing and torturing their civillians. You cannot eliminiate a force that was created as a direct result of military action by using more military action. Hezbollah have the support they have precisely because of what is going on today. Many arab governments are corrupt, have their own agenda’s and dont care about the civillians. That is why those who do and are willing to sacrifice their lives for them have the support. Rather than trying to change the populations minds by bombing their homes, why not try and talk to them? Why is talking with groups like hamas or hezbollah seen as such a bad thing? Communication and education is what we need, not destruction and devestation.
Why cant people see the hypocrisy in what is going on today? Support was there from the west when syrian troops were forced to withdrawl, yet today, that support is to be seen no where, leaving the lebanese people on their own. Do the government of the west really think that the lebanese communities are going to trust them again? Cant you see the obvious reasons as to why they hate the west so much?
I pray for those who suffer from the action of others. And I hope that one day this will all end, however my hope is limited as those in charge do not understand, or rather do not want to understand those who are trying to explain to them the root causes of the problem.
Good post Addamo. Love the last paragraph.
Send in the marines eh? Well that would put the cat amongst the pigeons. I’m sure that Blair’s visit to Bush has something to do with perhaps getting The Moron to slow down on this - Well how about doing a NATO instead!! Get on the border between the Lebs and our favourite Middle East Democracy. Maybe do some target spotting for them. Oooh, lets do a Serbia on Syria eh? What the Fuck? they even sound the same. Hey, great way to fight the terrorists. Call Kofi to get with our people.
Insertion of a force of NATO peacekeepers into the “buffer zone” is so outlandish it’s hard to believe the Israelis (the ultimate hard-eyed realists) would consider it.
If the Israelis want boots on the ground, they’re going to have to go to NATO or directly to the Germans and the Danes and the Poles and the French (yes, the cheese eating surrender monkeys), who are about as enthusiastic for the idea as they are for Mad Cow disease.
Chirac: OK, we’ll do it. But only if Daniel Pipes agrees to kiss my French ass in Macy’s window for a month of Sundays, and blow me on Fridays.
In any case, the chances of a face-saving NATO solution will go from remote to nil unless Hezbollah are willing to agree to the presence of foreign peacekeepers on its turf. Now that Hezbollah can sense the nervousness on teh part of the Israelis, it’s going to require the IDF to move a hell of a lot more quickly than it has up until now, and produce more tangible results than it has shown so far.
oh why can we talk to these nice hezbollah decapitators or these neo nazi hamas gentlemen? As a muslim, you are quite safe from these psychopaths. However their explicit objectives are to kill all Jews i.e. not Israelis. So what is there to talk about?
Naive and stupid in the extreme.
They are just so reliable. On this basis, you can safely assume that the death toll is probably 10% of what has been alleged.
Oh, and BTW, that was one of Kofi’s boys reluctantly acknowledging that the pals are inveterate liars.
Captain,
You silly maggot, you’re now confusing Hexzbollah with Al Zarqawi. What an idiot.
Hezbollah does not have a charter to kill Jews, unless they invade, attack or occupy Israel. They are a natioanlist group, not an Islamist grous, but morons liek you Captain don’t seem interested in these details.
You certainly are Captain. You shoud use this line as your sig tag.
You fucking moron Captain. The death toll is being recorded by nes sources on the ground. The death toll is probably much higher.
So are he ISraeli’s. That’s what happens in war Captain, it’s called propaghanda. Israelis are masters of it most of the time - unfortunately, propaghanda works west when there are no cameras to record the reality on the ground.
I’m not sure if this has been reported on elsewhere, but a Palestinian friend who is in contact with other Palestinians in Israel, tells me that the Israelis have been ignoring the Israeli news, instead turning to the Hizbollah news, in order to get a more accurate idea of what is going on. He noted that this is the opposite of what happened in 1967, when the Arab new services made outlandish claims as to the triumphant progress of the Arab armies, which by and large turned out to be crap. Now it is the other way round, the Israeli reporting has been seen to be exaggerated and the Israelis are listening to Hizbollah which is seen as more balanced.
It seems that the Israeli reporting has been getting a bit desperate of late. Does anyone seriously believe that it is Hizbollah that has been preventing Lebanese citizens from fleeing their homes? Never mind the fact that due to the destruction, movement of any kind is very difficult at present and they risk being taken out by Israeli bombs.
“Send in the marines eh? Well that would put the cat amongst the pigeons.”
If this report is right just the thought has put the cat amongst the pigeons.
“Has Hizbullah agreed to disarm? That’s what Elaph (Arabic) is now claiming. Hizbullah was reportedly concerned about a UN resolution under chapter 7 that would disarm it by force if necessary. Nabih Berri, Elaph claims, knew about Siniora’s plan and agreed to it before the Rome trip, leaving Hizbullah without a political cover in the country. Elaph said Hizbullah chose the lesser of two evils and went with the Siniora plan, which would lead to its peaceful disarmament. July 28”
And this why Israel must prevail
Report, Adalah, 14 February 2006
“On 1 February 2006, the Supreme Court of Israel, in a 2 to 1 split decision, accepted a petition submitted by Adalah, ruling illegal the Israeli Knesset’s 2001 vote to strip Member of Knesset (MK) Dr. Azmi Bishara of his parliamentary immunity, and dismissed all criminal charges against him. Commenting on the Court’s decision, Adalah General Director Attorney Hassan Jabareen stated that, “the Supreme Court’s decision is the culmination of a legal struggle against the authorities’ attempts, mainly by the former Attorney General and the General Security Services (GSS), to violate the fundamental right of political representation. This legal triumph, however, is only another step for the Arab minority in its quest to achieve a liberated, dignified and equal existence in the country.”
And this is why Hizbollah mustn’t
“Several suspected spies were shot dead in the southern Lebanese port of Tyre, witness said on Thursday.
Passengers on board an evacuation ship told medical doctor Boris Buck from the German city of Munich that they had seen members of the Lebanese Shi’ite Hezbollah group or their sympathisers killing 18 Lebanese people during the night.
The victims were suspected of helping the Israeli air force pick out targets.”
Peter Wilson (today’s Australian) was luckier than he realised.
Israel ignored resolutinos left right and centre during the first Lebanon invasion.
The simple fact is that Israel is in Lebanese territory right now, not the other way around. They are the invaders, and for tehm to insist that Hezbollah now abide by a resolution when Israel has told the UN to shut up and not even participate into the inquiry into th ebombing of the UN compaund, just goes to show how out of whack the Israelis are.
Look at the headlines.
No Truce ‘For Weeks’ as Talks Stall
* Hezbollah Demands Immediate Truce, Prisoner Swap
* Iran Calls for Cease-Fire
* Syria Calls for Cease-Fire
* Rice Warns Iran, Syria Not to Oppose Cease-Fire
Is it just me or is this picture looking extremly deranged?
Man I hate Conservatives that get up on their White Horse just to prove they are a prince of goodwill. Rice is a joke.
I would like to become a republic for plenty of reasons (pro-rupublic) the only arguement that I would go for in favour of Monarchy would be that currently the Gov. General does sweet fuck all, which the theory of is wonderful (means that parliament does everything, hence democracy theoretically is working at its full potential) unfortunately john howard has highjacked the position of Head of State, none the less it would be a shame if we were to have an elected president because no doubt we would get some idiot there like Bush at some point who would use the powers of head of state to fuck Aus.
Its people like you who are the cause of problems, not the solution. I talk about education and communication, and you outright say its naive and stupid based on what? Have the israelies ever given it a chance? No. So what are you basing it on? Have the palestinians complained about building the wall, or have they complained about it being built on their land? Remember the innocent family the got killed on the beach which the israeli investigation found was not their fault? Did the family just self combust? THAT WAS THE REASON WHY THE CEASEFIRE ENDED, NOT BECAUSE SOLDIERS GOT KIDNAPPED. That is something that jew lovers clearly dont want to mention, i wonder why.
Get a life captain, if you feel there is a need for war and destruction, then dont complain when you get some of your own medicine.When israelies die, you shouldnt whinge like you do, because you asked for it. Keep in mind, there are many more muslims than there are jes in the middle east, and when they have nothing left to lose, no home left to live in and no children left to bring up, all because of israelie ignorance and bombs what do you think will happen?
“Did the family just self combust?”
I thought this was cleared beyond refute.
Now listen.
Lesson 1
The Palestinians (assuming there is such a thing) KILL THEMSELVES so they can get free publicity. See how it works? They intentionally blow themselves up on the beach and then fall about crying and be maimed and aw it’s so pitiful and we have to feel sorry for them. The IDF already established that Palestinian doctors TAKE OUT the pieces of shrapnel from them in order that an a proper investigation is foiled. So, TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE - this is illegal.
Lesson 2
The massacre in Jenin DID NOT HAPPEN.
When the UN couldn’t make it to the investigation, Kofi called up and it was all clarified over the speaker phone. So stop saying there was a MASSACRE in Jenin.
nice!
Based on the fact that pals elected Hamas who explicitly state that they want to kill every Jew. Explain that to me. What is there to talk about? They have communicated very effectively: usually with bombs strapped to young people.
Yes, they complain a lot. Fortunately since the separation barrier was completed, successful suicide bombings have diminished. I bet they complain about that too from the olive groves they neglected holding the keys to the houses in Jerusalem that never existed.
Perhaps the education and communication should start with yourself.
Consider for instance the lengthy Oslo accords. During this time of communication and education, Arafat called for a million martyrs. Not a million educated, but a million dead. During this time of communication, there was never a greater level of terrorism in Israel. This was when the PA have full control of over 90% of the areas that palestinians lived. Israel built up PA infrastructure and of course it was used by Arafat and his gang of murderers to exploit what it perceived as weakness of the Israeli government.
Umm, you guys are going to kill even more Jews? That is pretty obvious. Its amazing how blood thirsty you are. Friend of Antony, if you are concerned about gazan’s safety you should have a word to your mates there to stop launching missiles into Israel. Pretty simple really, its called cause and effect. Pals launch missiles, Israel retaliates. Pals launch missiles from civilian areas, civilians get killed when retaliation occurs. But what are you worried about, they are martyrs aren’t they? Isn’t this what Arafat called for?
The simple reality is that if the Muslims put down their guns there would be no more war. If Israel did the same, there would be no more Israel. So perhaps your advice begins at home. Why don’t you start by trying to educate your holocaust denying mufti and take it from there.
Lovely. Would being a “Supporter of Antony” make you a jew-lover as well? Or is that not counted?
I think you left your little white hood in the closet…
That’s just blatant ignorance. It’s like saying that Israel voted for Sharon (a war criminal) because they as a country, aspire to be war criminals and kill others in droves.
You know very well that Hamas is not just a resistance movement, but that it has been very efficient in delivering social services for the poor and the weak in the occupied territories. Fatah have been not only impotent in helping the Palestinians cause, but also very corrupt.
Faces with this choice, it’s understandable why the Palestinian’s felt they needed to go a different route from the one that was failing miserably.
Yes how fortunate. It allowed Israel to steal more of the West Bank as well as fresh water supplies and splits Palestinian communities into smaller enclaves. Divide and conquer in the 20th century.
Trouble is that it has been deemed to be illegal under internationals law, but since when has Israel ever given a damn about internationals law, and why start now?
Which is not to be confused with 90% of occupied terrirtories.
This is priceless. PA infrastructure which was paid for by international aid, not by Israel. Obviously a few Israeli businessmen made a killing on the project. Well, Israel have since destroyed it, so I guess it considers itself even.
More Jews? How many have they killed? Hardly any. You make it sound like Israel has suffered catastrophic loss of life, when those killed by Muslims is probably less then the number that die on Israeli roads.
It is Israel that is killing Muslims in large numbers not the other way around. Nearly 2 hundred just in Gaza in 2 weeks.
You are a piece of work, our dear blood thirsty maggot. Hamas had a 19 month cease fire, and what did that give them? More attacks from Israel of course. I guess the ceasefire only applies to Arabs right?
So yes, it is cause and effect. Israel demands a cease fire, Israel break cease fire agreement (usually by provocation or manufactured casus belli) and opposition retaliates.
You are right, there would be just out and out occupation, more brutality, more killing of Muslims, more stealing of land, more more more. Even if Muslims put down their guns, the Israelis would never reciprocate.
Comical,
A perfect example of how not to answer an inconvenient question. Goldstein would be proud.
“…Arafat called for a million martyrs. Not a million educated, ..”
What is it with education and Palestinians, is it like oil and water - they can’t be combined?
For instance;
“UNICEF has asked Israel to permit the Palestinian children to go to school in implementation of the Fourth Geneva agreement and the Child Rights Agreement.
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/021003/2002100309.html
Israeli Airstrikes Hit Palestinian Ministry, School
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/04/AR2006070401040.html
“Killing schoolchildren and teachers:
From 29 September to 31 December 2000, fifty-six Palestinian schoolchildren were killed and 1,886 wounded, either lightly or resulting in permanent disability. 14 year-old Moayad Jawareesh from Ayida refugee camp was in the 9th grade at Beit Jala School when he was killed. His father told LAW, My son died on his way back from school on 16 October 2000, when a rubber-coated steel bullet hit him in the head. He was still carrying his schoolbag when he died. He was a bright child; he wanted to be a doctor.”" 17 year-old Waleed Al Badan of Taqou’a High School died at school on 30 November 2000 after an Israeli soldier shot him in the heart. Similarly, 16 year-old Mohammad Al Sha’ir, from the same school, was shot and killed on 2 November 2000 during an attack on the school by Israeli soldiers.”"”
http://www.1worldcommunication.org/violatingrighttoeducation.htm
Notice it was “rubber coated” that killed him - What? Do you think we’re animals?” Rubber. Rubber bounces. Like a beach ball. An accident!!!
Reports say an Israeli missile hit the Dar al-Arqam School, a Hamas-funded institution. Medics said a 13-year-old boy was seriously wounded in the head by shrapnel.
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=11678
But wait….
“Israeli army officials claimed that the Islamic school, part of Hamas’ social-service network, financially supports Palestinian fighters. ”
See there was a good reason for knocking down the school. (also , ….it was a Muslim School, …know what I mean?)
“He was a bright child; he wanted to be a doctor..”
They all say that
Like it or Lump it. Thats their right, they dont tell you who to vote for. (whether it’s a wise decision or not)
Funny that Israel keeps trying to build these peacewalls, might be a good temporary solution till negotiations can be forced (if Israel is ready to accept that Hamas are a recognised government, not just a bunch of terrorists/freedom fighters).
Whats even more amusing is that it’s always in someone elses territory “hey Pals we have this mad idea for peace, we will build a wall cutting off more of your land from you.” And lets not forget the 30km buffer zone it wants to CUT OUT of Lebanon.
M.Mayes,
Get your fact sstraight dude, they are not walls, they are “fences”, even though they make the Berlin wall look like a chiken wiire fence.
The term fence is used to give the illusion that they are temporary, bu they are abotu a stemporayr as the Sydney Harbor Tunnel.
It’s for the kids to draw on - graffiti. What?
“…Arafat called for a million martyrs. Not a million educated, ..”
What is it with education and Palestinians, is it like oil and water - they can’t be combined?
For instance;
“UNICEF has asked Israel to permit the Palestinian children to go to school in implementation of the Fourth Geneva agreement and the Child Rights Agreement.
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/021003/2002100309.html
Israeli Airstrikes Hit Palestinian Ministry, School
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/04/AR2006070401040.html
“Killing schoolchildren and teachers:
From 29 September to 31 December 2000, fifty-six Palestinian schoolchildren were killed and 1,886 wounded, either lightly or resulting in permanent disability. 14 year-old Moayad Jawareesh from Ayida refugee camp was in the 9th grade at Beit Jala School when he was killed. His father told LAW, My son died on his way back from school on 16 October 2000, when a rubber-coated steel bullet hit him in the head. He was still carrying his schoolbag when he died. He was a bright child; he wanted to be a doctor.”” 17 year-old Waleed Al Badan of Taqou’a High School died at school on 30 November 2000 after an Israeli soldier shot him in the heart. Similarly, 16 year-old Mohammad Al Sha’ir, from the same school, was shot and killed on 2 November 2000 during an attack on the school by Israeli soldiers.”””
http://www.1worldcommunication.org/violatingrighttoeducation.htm
Notice it was “rubber coated” that killed him - What? Do you think we’re animals?” Rubber. Rubber bounces. Like a beach ball. An accident!!!
Reports say an Israeli missile hit the Dar al-Arqam School, a Hamas-funded institution. Medics said a 13-year-old boy was seriously wounded in the head by shrapnel.
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=11678
But wait….
“Israeli army officials claimed that the Islamic school, part of Hamas’ social-service network, financially supports Palestinian fighters. ”
See there was a good reason for knocking down the school. (also , ….it was a Muslim School, …know what I mean?)
The mafia use the same argument.
Yes, its left hand did.
I choose lump it. They vote for neonazis; we respond accordingly. They can like or lump the response, its their choice, wise or not.
Stop being a dickhead Captain. Hamas actually has a trakc record of being very efficient in delivering these services.
A 19 month continuous ceasefire, which Israel broke - like they so often do. Loko at hte calls for a ceasefire today, Israle is the only country rejecting it. Israel apparently hates cesasefires.
And Israel vored for a war criminal, and you knwo what happens to war criminals don’t you Captain? History catches up with them and it will with Israel too.
So do the mafia. If you don’t like it they kill you. Same with Hamas.
Its also understandable why they didn’t vote for more moderate parties that had neither an Islamist objective and were anti corruption. They voted for the most bloodthirsty Jew killers they could find. It really is that simple.
The ceasefire was unilateral. While ‘Hamas’ team A were not sending in bomb strapped teenagers like they had, the PRC that they are part of were doing this. Similarly they were facilitating the bombing of Sderot. Hardly a ceasefire.
Sharon a war criminal? According to which court? The court of the Arab street? Funny that he was able to travel freely and welcome in all (non Jew hating) countries.
Compare that to Hamas that is internationally recognised as a terrorist organisation. How amazing that pals would choose the blood thirsty Jew killing choice.
And Isral voted for a man who has the blood of hunderds of Arabs on his hands. did they go moderate? No. See, they are just the same.
We know how Israel loves those kinds of ceasefire. You stop shooting, but we’ll continue, because hey, we are the chosen ones right? For fuck sake Captain, you carry on about there being no partner for peace, but when peace is offered , it is rejected anyway.
Another one of you bullshit conspiracy theories relating to the Islam fascist Caliphate?
Belgian court. Internationally he is recognized as one. Even in Israel he a considered one, but they still voted for him.
Only because Israel argued that as a head of state, he was immune from being imprisoned. Anyway, a number of his generals stick stay clear of the Uk for fear of being arrested.
As opposed to Israel choosing an Arab killing choice, whicih was not amazing at all. That’s what the world has come to expect of Israel.
The world is seeing is almost real time what Israel is all about. No more pretence. No more spin or propaganda. Even Israel’s amen corner are in a panic, which is why Israel is calling upon 100,000 laptop bombardiers to hit as many blogs and mailing lists in an effort to stem the tide or disgust and shame that Israel has brought upon itself.
Of course it won’t work, because they will all come across sounding like you wont they?
No, you are wrong. Sharon went to the polls with a mandate for a two state solution and peace. Hamas went to the polls with a mandate to kill Jews. Both were elected. Go figure.
Addumboo, have you not heard of the popular resistance committee? It is no conspiracy, I am sorry that you are so ignorant about these salient points.
Addamonijed replies:
I rest my case.
hamas came to power logn after Sharon took hwi mandate and spat on it.
Yes I have. Not that it has anything to do with Hamas.
Comical, you slimy bottom feeder. Are you ever going to post anything of substance, or you jsut goign to hide bhind your Jewsishness and hope that wil suffice?
Yo need to formulate one before you get to do that idiot. When do you plan on starting?
what sock puppet gets deleted? but holocaust denial doesn’t?
addumboo, you are plainly ignorant. Lets see if you can explain this.
Just part of the article.
You can withdraw your idiotic comment any time, moron.
Well now I’m not sure how that response really fits into the Israel(/american) arguement that these countries just need working democracy. But hey your entitled to your opinion, whether IT is wise or not.
Democracy carries with it responsibility. Its called universal suffrage. Never in the history of democracy has any people elected a party with an agenda of genocide. It is quite explicit. The pals have created yet another first. It had been an assumption until that time that people generally gravitate to the middle, to peace and to economic prosperity. Wouldn’t ya know it: the pals chose murder.
Shows what I know right. Here i was thinking that Hitler actually got into power legally.
Israeli’s havent exactly had a history of voting for leaders who were Pro-Palestine either. The Palestinians have no democratic responsibility to a Nation who is settling their land and displacing their people.
This si priceless. The length of that tunnel just keeps getting longer and longer doesn’t it? Back in June, it was supposed to be 500 yards, so since then, it has more than doubled.
Has anyone seen this tunnel? Do we have any pictures of it?
We’re supposed to believe that in a few months, this tunnel was dug out, in an open areas that is comprised of loose desert sand. The area is patrolled by IDF troops who’s view of it is unimpeded, yet over the course of months, no one saw ventilation pipes sticking out of the ground, or heard any digging, or saw any soil/sand being removed.
Captain, you really need to get that tin foil hat replaced.
Stupidist comment of the lot. What abtou your hero, Hitlers? What does his atuobiography say about that heir Captain?
Just becuase Israel does not list their intentions on their web site doensn’t mean that they don’t intend to do it.
Nah, Israel beat them to it with Begin.
How are they supposed to do that while living in a large prison called Gaza?
Lonbg after Israel did and in far greater numbers.
This’ll be fun… Captain you are blatently a holocaust denier! You disgust me.
Given that Hitler and the Nazi’s came to power legally, your statement could only mean that the Nazi’s never comitted Genocide. Captain, you filthy Holocaust denier you.
Viva,
Where are you when we need you???
We have a live one for you. Bring the stretcher, some heavy duty tranquilizers and your labotomy kit.
Now this is interesting, I (just joking around) have presented an arguement there for Captain being a Holocaust denier, yet Captain and Viva are yet to (seriously) present anything to say that either of us are…
You knwo how it goes M.Mayes, onyl Jews are allowed to criticise Israel, so maybe there is a special clause that ermits Jews to deny the Holocaust.
Stay vigilant M.Mayes. It’s probably a trick to see who goes along with it, then they can turn around and say aha, gotcha.
See we have proof now!!
Hang on a sec, I think this makes captain a anti-semetic, self hating jew, does this make him a self-hating jew Addamo? CAPTAIN YOU SELF-HATING JEW, TAKE YOUR ANTISEMITISM AND LEAVE!
You are obviously ignorant of the relationship between Hitler and the Wiemar republic. He installed himself from a minority position. He did so by force. What is the connection between this and Holocaust denial? You are children.
Addamo/Mayer
Given that you have both already shown yourself preposterously ignorant about history and international law, I am stunned that you are going for the hattrick! We all wait with glee to see you present us your position of the historiography of the rise of Nazi Germant? Would you say you were intentionsalists or functionalists? I am not convinced by Kershaw’s synthesis, are you?
Ah, yes our resident confederacy of dunces will perhaps bail their fellow-traveller, Mel Gibson out of jail.
Viva,
You have just wasted everyone time prancing around like a deranged and washed up diva on a stage long after the audience has left, telling the empty theatre how superior you are, yet clearly struggling to overcome your fear of engaging anyone in debate. When you’re asked a question, your reaction is to look the other way and pretend you haven’t hear it.
I trust that the compendium of irrelevant invectives about whether one should regard one’s self as an internationalists vs a functionalists, is infested to mask your hide that you reside in some parallel universe. We are talking about matters of foreign affairs after all, so whenever you decide you want to join us, feel free.
I am surprised that you even mention international law, given the contempt you have repeatedly voiced about it.
Many posts back, so it seems, you offered us an explanation as to why the plaque a Auschewitz was revised, and we are still waiting. Now you are babbling about the “historiography” of the rise of Nazi Germany, as is to imply it is some guarded mystery that only a handful of exceptional people like yourself fully comprehend.
You seem to be unable to avoid painting yourself into a rhetorical coiner with your hit and run posts Viva. Isn’t it time to put up or shut up?
That’s another topic isn’t it? I haven’t read Kershaw’s work on Hitler, but I would certainly be interested to hear what your reservations are. I must confess to not being a big fan of Hitler. As apocryphal and WWII was, I don’t regard Hitler as unique to history as some would have us believe.
Gibson is a troubled soul. His battles with addiction and his own demons is unfortunate, but I have little sympathy for those with so much to celebrate in their lives, who fail to appreciate how fortunate they are.
Hitler’s attempts to forcefully gain power failed (Munich Beer Hall Putsch and whatnot) he then exploited loopholes in the Wiemar’s parlimentry system to force elections and each time he gained more support from the public (and used scare campaigns on the opponents) to gain power.
So I am really not sure what you are talking about there captain.
Funny that when it comes down to you, there needs to be a connection to holocaust denial, especially considering I obviously said it in a jovial manner whilst you and Viva accused (quite ignorantly) Addamo and myself of being deniers.
I would rather wave the idea of joining in with an ‘ism’. I am a moderate. Each Functionalism and Internationalism have their good intentions but how the idea of the world working together whilst you have Islam attacking the west and the coalition attacking Islam, I’m not entirely convinced either could work at the present time.
What are your thoughts on the subject?
I will have to agree with Addamo there Viva, the history of germany isnt exactly a gaurded secret, I’ve studied it, I’m sure you have studied it, I’m infact sure most of the people in Australia have studied it. If you have any things about Nazi history you would like cleared up, feel free to ask.
As for Kershaw. I’m sure I have come across his theories when I studied Hitler’s Germany years ago, care to share your knowledge on the matter?