"…the settlers’ first act of expiation toward the natives of this land must be to restore to them their dignity, their memory, their justness."

I'ts hard to believe that this will ever happen. First they have to convince THEMSELVES that Palestinians are human beings.

I am not a psychologist, but I think that everyone who lives with the contradictions of Zionism condemns himself to protracted madness. It's impossible to live like this. It's impossible to live with such a tremendous wrong. It's impossible to live with such conflicting moral criteria. When I see not only the settlements and the occupation and the suppression, but now also the insane wall that the Israelis are trying to hide behind, I have to conclude that there is something very deep here in our attitude to the indigenous people of this land that drives us out of our minds.

There is something gigantic here that doesn't allow us truly to recognize the Palestinians, that doesn't allow us to make peace with them. And that something has to do with the fact that even before the return of the land and the houses and the money, the settlers' first act of expiation toward the natives of this land must be to restore to them their dignity, their memory, their justness.

But that is just what we are incapable of doing. Our past won't allow us to do it. Even if Israel surrounds itself with a fence and a moat and a wall, it won't help. Because Israel as a Jewish state will not be able to exist.

(Ari Shavit interview, in Ha'aretz, with Haim Hanegbi and Meron Benvenisti, August 28,
2003, found on Znet)

If the bombing of the King David Hotel was repudiated by mainstream Israelis/Jews, tehn why is ti being celebrated by mainstream Israelis/Jews, and Netenyahu in particular?

Now using the logic Captain applies to teh Palestians, does this not suggest that Israel is a terrorist state that endorses such activities?

Of course not, But let's stop this rediculous argument that the Palestinaisn voted for vilence and eh dstruction of Israel when they elected Hamas. They boted for someone to effectively represent them, and not seel out to the ISrael or the US.

Why don’t you really say what you mean, you merely hate Israel.

If I dont say I hate Israel, its because I dont. I hate what Israel's government is doing to civilians in Lebanon.

Your claim was that Israel was formed by violence. I disproved that.

You disproved nothing. There was pressure from Zionist groups (some of which terrorist groups) for the creation of Israel. Israel was not Soley formed by Violence (but nor did I say that it was).

Terrorism was used by the Irgun as a means to pressure the UK and the UN into creating Israel and getting out of 'their' town.

Of course the bombing of the King David Hotel was violent. It was repudiated by mainstream Israelis/Jews.

there thank you, was that so hard. Now, what do you think of the celebration of the KDH bombing?

Hamas don't happen to be one of those One-Policy-Parties we unfortunately have in Australia, you have to look at them as a whole. Palestinians arent voting solely on their govt.'s position on Israel. So it says nothing negative at all about the Palestinians.

Almost as ignorant as thinking that the UN would have made Israel had there been NO pressure from zionists.

There are a variety of pressures at the UN. Your claim was that Israel was formed by violence. I disproved that. Now you shift the goal posts again. Why don't you really say what you mean, you merely hate Israel.

Of course the bombing of the King David Hotel was violent. It was repudiated by mainstream Israelis/Jews. Compare that with Hamas, a violent organisation with a stated objective of killing all Jews, elected to represent all pals. Hmmm, I wonder what that says about the pals.

This is just an ignorant statement.

Almost as ignorant as thinking that the UN would have made Israel had there been NO pressure from zionists.

As soon as Israel was created, it was attacked by every arab state. So yes I guess you could say it was borne of violence, Muslim violence. What an unusual phenomena.

Which brings us back to a previous point, What is your view on the King David Hotel bombing? Really I'd like to know, because if that wasnt violence, I dont know what is.

A UN vote that was passed when the UN realised they had to do something because Zionist terrorists were ‘blowin shit up.’

sin qua non of antisemitism.

This is just an ignorant statement. The Irgun was the UK's problem, not the UNs. The British mandate carved Palestine into Transjordan and Israel. The UN mandate tried to again carve Israel up but of course rejectionist pals wouldn't negotiate.

As soon as Israel was created, it was attacked by every arab state. So yes I guess you could say it was borne of violence, Muslim violence. What an unusual phenomena.

Yes, and I think they know.

The Irgun did not target civilians.

No? well regardless of their intentions most of the 91 deaths from king david hotel bombing were civilian.

Israel was founded on terrorism? Funny that, I thought it was a UN vote.

A UN vote that was passed when the UN realised they had to do something because Zionist terrorists were 'blowin shit up.'

Hence founded on terrorism.