Comments on: Start the conversation http://antonyloewenstein.com/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/ Sun, 21 Mar 2010 10:00:30 +1100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: The old canard recycled. Again. » | Antony Loewenstein http://antonyloewenstein.com/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/comment-page-1/#comment-12105 The old canard recycled. Again. » | Antony Loewenstein Wed, 30 Aug 2006 00:59:55 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/#comment-12105 [...] The Jewish establishment is clearly unprepared or unwilling to engage honestly with the Zionist cause and the Israeli occupation of Palestine. After last Sunday’s sold-out debate at the Melbourne Writer’s Festival - and the Australian Jewish News’ blatantly dishonest interpretation of the same event  - today’s Melbourne Age features a letter from one of the usual suspects: [...] [...] The Jewish establishment is clearly unprepared or unwilling to engage honestly with the Zionist cause and the Israeli occupation of Palestine. After last Sunday’s sold-out debate at the Melbourne Writer’s Festival – and the Australian Jewish News’ blatantly dishonest interpretation of the same event  – today’s Melbourne Age features a letter from one of the usual suspects: [...]

]]> By: greg http://antonyloewenstein.com/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/comment-page-1/#comment-12104 greg Wed, 30 Aug 2006 00:43:33 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/#comment-12104 as an "oldie", I can only admire the stand you have taken Antony. I've had to contend with our Jewish "Lobby" for 40 years & they seem to get more paranoic with each year that passes. But our voices need to be heard to prevent democratic debate being stifled. I remember telling fellow Jews after the Yom Kipur War of 1973, that then was the time to give up the settlement policies and recognise the Palestinian rights to a homeland.The abuse was intimidating and otherwise progressive Jews became blind,deaf & dumb when it came to commenting on Israeli policies. I argued then that by maintaining its expansionist policies the only future for Israel would be annhialation and threatening all of us with a world war. I was told I was mad and a Jewish anti-semite (oxymoron?)& was even threatened physically by one rabid Zionist. (Plus ca change!) Keep up the good work as an “oldie”, I can only admire the stand you have taken Antony. I’ve had to contend with our Jewish “Lobby” for 40 years & they seem to get more paranoic with each year that passes. But our voices need to be heard to prevent democratic debate being stifled. I remember telling fellow Jews after the Yom Kipur War of 1973, that then was the time to give up the settlement policies and recognise the Palestinian rights to a homeland.The abuse was intimidating and otherwise progressive Jews became blind,deaf & dumb when it came to commenting on Israeli policies. I argued then that by maintaining its expansionist policies the only future for Israel would be annhialation and threatening all of us with a world war. I was told I was mad and a Jewish anti-semite (oxymoron?)& was even threatened physically by one rabid Zionist. (Plus ca change!)
Keep up the good work

]]> By: Ian http://antonyloewenstein.com/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/comment-page-1/#comment-12095 Ian Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:30:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/#comment-12095 <blockquote>Israel is not the traditional ethnic homeland of the Jews.</blockquote>Even though their history claims they came to Canaan from elsewhere, it s probable that the ancestral Jews were in fact locals differing only in the religion they adopted around 700-800 BCE. Not that this, IMO, entitles their decendants to Palestinian land they didn't legitimitely buy and it certainly doesn't entitle them to rule over the real owners. The idea that a people retain land rights even after 2000 years is untenable. The Romans occupied England for longer than the Kingdom of Israel existed and left at about the same time as the last Jews were driven out of Judah, so do Italians have the right to resettle Britain and boot out the current inhabitants? What about the Moors and Spain, or the Vandal decendants in North Africa to Germany and parts of Scandinavia? And then there are the Australian Aboriginals and Native Americans. Their association with their land is much more enduring than the claims of the Israelites. At least 48,000 years and 12-15,000 years respectively. Plus their "diasporas" were much more recent, in some cases within the last decade, making their land claims many times stronger. Hands up all those who are giving their land back to the local Aboriginal/Native American group, without compensation, to live in an Indonesian or Cuban refugee camp!

Israel is not the traditional ethnic homeland of the Jews.

Even though their history claims they came to Canaan from elsewhere, it s probable that the ancestral Jews were in fact locals differing only in the religion they adopted around 700-800 BCE.

Not that this, IMO, entitles their decendants to Palestinian land they didn’t legitimitely buy and it certainly doesn’t entitle them to rule over the real owners. The idea that a people retain land rights even after 2000 years is untenable. The Romans occupied England for longer than the Kingdom of Israel existed and left at about the same time as the last Jews were driven out of Judah, so do Italians have the right to resettle Britain and boot out the current inhabitants? What about the Moors and Spain, or the Vandal decendants in North Africa to Germany and parts of Scandinavia?

And then there are the Australian Aboriginals and Native Americans. Their association with their land is much more enduring than the claims of the Israelites. At least 48,000 years and 12-15,000 years respectively. Plus their “diasporas” were much more recent, in some cases within the last decade, making their land claims many times stronger. Hands up all those who are giving their land back to the local Aboriginal/Native American group, without compensation, to live in an Indonesian or Cuban refugee camp!

]]> By: Progressive Atheist http://antonyloewenstein.com/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/comment-page-1/#comment-12084 Progressive Atheist Tue, 29 Aug 2006 14:44:57 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/#comment-12084 I object to the use of the term 'diaspora' to refer to certain Jews. It is a term that has been seconded to the Zionist cause. By definition, it means "any people or ethnic population forced or induced to leave their traditional ethnic homelands; being dispersed throughout other parts of the world, and the ensuing developments in their dispersal and culture". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora Israel is not the traditional ethnic homeland of the Jews. That is the Zionist myth. Antony, stop supporting Zionism! I object to the use of the term ‘diaspora’ to refer to certain Jews. It is a term that has been seconded to the Zionist cause. By definition, it means “any people or ethnic population forced or induced to leave their traditional ethnic homelands; being dispersed throughout other parts of the world, and the ensuing developments in their dispersal and culture”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora

Israel is not the traditional ethnic homeland of the Jews. That is the Zionist myth.

Antony, stop supporting Zionism!

]]> By: orang http://antonyloewenstein.com/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/comment-page-1/#comment-12063 orang Mon, 28 Aug 2006 21:07:41 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/#comment-12063 Don't blame the x-ers, they were the product of the baby boomers who rebelled against their parents who grew up during the Great Depression and WWII - now they were REALLY fucked up. Don’t blame the x-ers, they were the product of the baby boomers who rebelled against their parents who grew up during the Great Depression and WWII – now they were REALLY fucked up.

]]> By: Suze http://antonyloewenstein.com/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/comment-page-1/#comment-12049 Suze Mon, 28 Aug 2006 08:43:57 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/#comment-12049 Is there any other. Film clip is great though. Maybe Irag-Iran is the Vietnam of this generation. Just a thought, but it might not be only muslim youth who will be radicalized in the near future. I think as a society we have overslept and my generation- the x-ers are most to blame. Is there any other. Film clip is great though. Maybe Irag-Iran is the Vietnam of this generation. Just a thought, but it might not be only muslim youth who will be radicalized in the near future. I think as a society we have overslept and my generation- the x-ers are most to blame.

]]> By: orang http://antonyloewenstein.com/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/comment-page-1/#comment-12047 orang Mon, 28 Aug 2006 08:05:28 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/#comment-12047 Procul Harum......you mean Whiter Shade of Pale Procol Harum? My God, I think I have that. Procul Harum……you mean Whiter Shade of Pale Procol Harum?

My God, I think I have that.

]]> By: Suze http://antonyloewenstein.com/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/comment-page-1/#comment-12046 Suze Mon, 28 Aug 2006 07:55:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/#comment-12046 Congrats Antony. Takes a good deal to do what you have done. Hey I just listened to Procul Harum over at Crooks and Liars while reading this blog entry -magic. Congrats Antony. Takes a good deal to do what you have done.
Hey I just listened to Procul Harum over at Crooks and Liars while reading this blog entry -magic.

]]> By: Nell Fenwick http://antonyloewenstein.com/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/comment-page-1/#comment-12041 Nell Fenwick Mon, 28 Aug 2006 02:07:20 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/#comment-12041 The link might well be a Safari/Mac issue: it works fine using Firefox. The link might well be a Safari/Mac issue: it works fine using Firefox.

]]> By: Addamo_01 http://antonyloewenstein.com/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/comment-page-1/#comment-12040 Addamo_01 Mon, 28 Aug 2006 02:04:19 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2006/08/28/start-the-conversation/#comment-12040 Great stuff Antony, You're doing an amazing job. Thank god there is finally an open discussion about these issues. Great stuff Antony,

You’re doing an amazing job. Thank god there is finally an open discussion about these issues.

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