Comments on: Crime and Punishment http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/ Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:58:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Bruce M Warrington http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259674 Bruce M Warrington Sat, 28 May 2005 11:31:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259674 Anon, I'm afraid you and I part company here. Religion had nothing to do with East Timor. In fact, I believe (though I could be wrong about this) that the general who led the invasion, Benny Moerdani, was a Christian - a Catholic even. Soeharto's motivation for invading East Timor was fear of "communism" (though Fretilin was hardly that) and (probably) a good old-fashioned resource grab. Anon, I’m afraid you and I part company here. Religion had nothing to do with East Timor. In fact, I believe (though I could be wrong about this) that the general who led the invasion, Benny Moerdani, was a Christian - a Catholic even. Soeharto’s motivation for invading East Timor was fear of “communism” (though Fretilin was hardly that) and (probably) a good old-fashioned resource grab.

]]> By: Anonymous http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259673 Anonymous Sat, 28 May 2005 08:04:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259673 What's interesting here, and got lost in the whole Schappelle debate here, is that while calling for punishment for East Timor's butchers, you ignore that the 'ethnic cleansing' was really a religious cleansing of Muslims versus Catholics as much as anything else, though I know with your unabashed love of all things Islamic that's a bit uncomfy... What’s interesting here, and got lost in the whole Schappelle debate here, is that while calling for punishment for East Timor’s butchers, you ignore that the ‘ethnic cleansing’ was really a religious cleansing of Muslims versus Catholics as much as anything else, though I know with your unabashed love of all things Islamic that’s a bit uncomfy…

]]> By: michael http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259672 michael Sat, 28 May 2005 06:13:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259672 Of course there's nothing wrong with making negative comments about something as perverse and corrupt as the Indonesian justice system, but you've got to wonder why so many Australians are so fixated on the failings of a foreign legal system which has screwed over one Australian while there is another one a lot closer to home that is also corrupt and perverse and screws over many Australians (and non-Australians) every week. <br/><br/>And, what's more, if you believe that we live under a regime somewhat more democratic than the one to our north, there might even be more scope for actually doing something about it other than whining and promising to avoid Bali as a holiday destination.<br/><br/>Seems particularly odd to me that a lot of the same commentators who support indefinite detention of foreigners who roll up on our shores with little more than the clothes on their back are so outraged about the 20 year sentence for one person who rolled up in Bali with ganga in her board bag.<br/><br/>BTW, has anyone heard of any proposed boycotts of Qantas for failing to stop their baggage handlers from smuggling gear and implicating innocent beauticians?<br/>Seems that allowing your baggage to be processed at an Australian airport is as much of a risk factor as landing in Bali with an unlocked board bag. Of course there’s nothing wrong with making negative comments about something as perverse and corrupt as the Indonesian justice system, but you’ve got to wonder why so many Australians are so fixated on the failings of a foreign legal system which has screwed over one Australian while there is another one a lot closer to home that is also corrupt and perverse and screws over many Australians (and non-Australians) every week.

And, what’s more, if you believe that we live under a regime somewhat more democratic than the one to our north, there might even be more scope for actually doing something about it other than whining and promising to avoid Bali as a holiday destination.

Seems particularly odd to me that a lot of the same commentators who support indefinite detention of foreigners who roll up on our shores with little more than the clothes on their back are so outraged about the 20 year sentence for one person who rolled up in Bali with ganga in her board bag.

BTW, has anyone heard of any proposed boycotts of Qantas for failing to stop their baggage handlers from smuggling gear and implicating innocent beauticians?
Seems that allowing your baggage to be processed at an Australian airport is as much of a risk factor as landing in Bali with an unlocked board bag.

]]> By: Anonymous http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259671 Anonymous Sat, 28 May 2005 02:41:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259671 Wow, Bruce, I've found a supporter here, thanks!<br/><br/>Um, other anonymous, how do you figure? (I know, I know, off-topic...but this promises to be good.) Wow, Bruce, I’ve found a supporter here, thanks!

Um, other anonymous, how do you figure? (I know, I know, off-topic…but this promises to be good.)

]]> By: Anonymous http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259670 Anonymous Fri, 27 May 2005 23:31:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259670 don't want to divert the thread from its central theme, but let's get one thing crystal clear.<br/>Bush Junior has not been democratically elected to the American Presidency. <br/>ej don’t want to divert the thread from its central theme, but let’s get one thing crystal clear.
Bush Junior has not been democratically elected to the American Presidency.
ej

]]> By: Bruce M Warrington http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259669 Bruce M Warrington Fri, 27 May 2005 17:29:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259669 Anon, the fact that one opposes the use of externally-imposed violence to remove a thug from power does not mean one supports that same thug.<br/><br/>I don't think Antony would "poo-poo" you for your comments about the Indonesian judiciary, as you seem to be making a valid criticism of the system. There are some, however who do not, like Malcolm Elliot, with his disgusting "monkey" references and gratuitous insulting of Indonesia's current and former presidents. That shit is clearly racist. Anon, the fact that one opposes the use of externally-imposed violence to remove a thug from power does not mean one supports that same thug.

I don’t think Antony would “poo-poo” you for your comments about the Indonesian judiciary, as you seem to be making a valid criticism of the system. There are some, however who do not, like Malcolm Elliot, with his disgusting “monkey” references and gratuitous insulting of Indonesia’s current and former presidents. That shit is clearly racist.

]]> By: Anonymous http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259668 Anonymous Fri, 27 May 2005 14:27:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259668 Hey, I said nothing about the culture of Indonesia, lovely folk and a great mate of mine is Balinese (and yes, some of my best friends are Jewish), but you seem to feel that any third-world strongman state is de facto legit (Saddam, etc), while treating democratically elected leaders like Howard and Bush with contempt. It's just funny that on the one hand you'll take a dump on anyone who's skeptical of the Indonesian ability to prosecute this fairly (none of the judges have ever acquitted a drugs defendant, which seems pretty kangaroo-courtish to me) and call them racists, but then on the other poo-poo them for not going hard enough, or hard at all, on their own genocidal thugs. Hey, I said nothing about the culture of Indonesia, lovely folk and a great mate of mine is Balinese (and yes, some of my best friends are Jewish), but you seem to feel that any third-world strongman state is de facto legit (Saddam, etc), while treating democratically elected leaders like Howard and Bush with contempt. It’s just funny that on the one hand you’ll take a dump on anyone who’s skeptical of the Indonesian ability to prosecute this fairly (none of the judges have ever acquitted a drugs defendant, which seems pretty kangaroo-courtish to me) and call them racists, but then on the other poo-poo them for not going hard enough, or hard at all, on their own genocidal thugs.

]]> By: Antony Loewenstein http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259664 Antony Loewenstein Fri, 27 May 2005 09:01:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259664 Rife with racism? Whatever. (though I presume you're being HILARIOUS!).<br/>One can talking about the failures of the Indo legal system, pros and cons, without being racist. My point has always been about talking about the system as a whole, or dismissing the entire culture as "inferior". Sound familiar? Rife with racism? Whatever. (though I presume you’re being HILARIOUS!).
One can talking about the failures of the Indo legal system, pros and cons, without being racist. My point has always been about talking about the system as a whole, or dismissing the entire culture as “inferior”. Sound familiar?

]]> By: michael http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259663 michael Fri, 27 May 2005 08:41:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259663 Of course there is a bright side to this.<br/><br/>Every bigotted yobbo in Australia has today promised to never go to Bali again.<br/><br/>Should be a nice place to be for the next few months. Of course there is a bright side to this.

Every bigotted yobbo in Australia has today promised to never go to Bali again.

Should be a nice place to be for the next few months.

]]> By: Anonymous http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259662 Anonymous Fri, 27 May 2005 08:39:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/27/crime-and-punishment/#comment-259662 Jeez, Ant, how can you go around criticizing the Indonesian legal system for not prosecuting the butchers of East Timor? I swear, mate, this post is just rife with the racism that is never far from the Schapelle Corby case. Jeez, Ant, how can you go around criticizing the Indonesian legal system for not prosecuting the butchers of East Timor? I swear, mate, this post is just rife with the racism that is never far from the Schapelle Corby case.

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