Comments on: Few mates for Alan http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/ Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:52:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: B. Rutherford http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/#comment-259745 B. Rutherford Sun, 05 Jun 2005 13:28:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/#comment-259745 I have to agree with Jenny on this one. Your arguments are ill formed and similar to those found in a children's playground.<br/><br/>From reading your responses it seems to me you use the age old technique of putting words in someone else's mouth. I've searched through her comments to find where she says Dershowitz's book is "compelling". It's not there.<br/><br/>Also, at no time does she mention a reluctance to question Israel's actions. I think you are one of those argumentative types who prefers to keep the argument going rather than come to a solution. I have to agree with Jenny on this one. Your arguments are ill formed and similar to those found in a children’s playground.

From reading your responses it seems to me you use the age old technique of putting words in someone else’s mouth. I’ve searched through her comments to find where she says Dershowitz’s book is “compelling”. It’s not there.

Also, at no time does she mention a reluctance to question Israel’s actions. I think you are one of those argumentative types who prefers to keep the argument going rather than come to a solution.

]]> By: Antony Loewenstein http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/#comment-259742 Antony Loewenstein Sun, 05 Jun 2005 09:13:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/#comment-259742 Jenny, thanks for your insights.<br/>If you find the Case for Israel compelling and unlike anything you've ever read before, perhaps that's because you've been more than willing to accept Dershowitz's distortions on the subject. Both sides have fault, of this there is no doubt.<br/>I breed hatred through my work? Oooook then. I'll take that on board. <br/>Then realise that questioning Israel's behaviour is actually acceptable and should be encouraged. Then again, depends if you'd prefer to bury your head in the sand. The world is turning against Israel. And we wonder who is to blame...? Jenny, thanks for your insights.
If you find the Case for Israel compelling and unlike anything you’ve ever read before, perhaps that’s because you’ve been more than willing to accept Dershowitz’s distortions on the subject. Both sides have fault, of this there is no doubt.
I breed hatred through my work? Oooook then. I’ll take that on board.
Then realise that questioning Israel’s behaviour is actually acceptable and should be encouraged. Then again, depends if you’d prefer to bury your head in the sand. The world is turning against Israel. And we wonder who is to blame…?

]]> By: Jenny Cockburn http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/#comment-259739 Jenny Cockburn Sun, 05 Jun 2005 03:00:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/#comment-259739 And so you prove my point by not offering counterpoints but reverting, yet again, to name calling.<br/><br/>I mentioned nothing about Finkelstein. You, on the other hand, truly are ignorant if you believe there is 100% innocence and guilt on either side of the line.<br/><br/>How would you know if Dershowitz ever found fault with Israel. You wouldn't even give him the chance to answer. Have you spoken to him? I have.<br/><br/>He, unlike you, has the qualifications and skills to launch a convincing argument. Is his book titled "An Unbiased and Completely Non-Partisan Approach to the Situation in Israel"? No, it is called "The Case for Israel". His bias is stated in the title. I read his book to discover an argument I had never heard in the media.<br/><br/>This last couple of weeks I have seen how the media eats its own bullshit with the Schappelle Corby trial. Lies are reported and then accepted and repeated until they are assumed to be the truth. Dershowitz's book has shown the same thing has happened with a lot of the reporting regarding Israel.<br/><br/>I don't know where your bias comes from but the mere fact of its existence shows that you know a lot more about showboating and getting your name published than you do about actual journalism.<br/><br/>People like you give a wonderful profession a terrible name. And so you prove my point by not offering counterpoints but reverting, yet again, to name calling.

I mentioned nothing about Finkelstein. You, on the other hand, truly are ignorant if you believe there is 100% innocence and guilt on either side of the line.

How would you know if Dershowitz ever found fault with Israel. You wouldn’t even give him the chance to answer. Have you spoken to him? I have.

He, unlike you, has the qualifications and skills to launch a convincing argument. Is his book titled “An Unbiased and Completely Non-Partisan Approach to the Situation in Israel”? No, it is called “The Case for Israel”. His bias is stated in the title. I read his book to discover an argument I had never heard in the media.

This last couple of weeks I have seen how the media eats its own bullshit with the Schappelle Corby trial. Lies are reported and then accepted and repeated until they are assumed to be the truth. Dershowitz’s book has shown the same thing has happened with a lot of the reporting regarding Israel.

I don’t know where your bias comes from but the mere fact of its existence shows that you know a lot more about showboating and getting your name published than you do about actual journalism.

People like you give a wonderful profession a terrible name.

]]> By: Antony Loewenstein http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/#comment-259736 Antony Loewenstein Sun, 05 Jun 2005 00:37:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/#comment-259736 I should be ashamed? I don't offer solutions? Er, I'm writing a book about just this subject out early 2006. I'm not offering solutions? What, and Dershowitz is, by simply being incapable of finding fault with Israel at all? <br/>If you call people like Finkelstein or myself ignorant, chances are you simply don't know the facts or prefer to bury your head in the sand re Israel. <br/>Dershowitz? Bigot. There, accept that.<br/>And please do keep reading.... I should be ashamed? I don’t offer solutions? Er, I’m writing a book about just this subject out early 2006. I’m not offering solutions? What, and Dershowitz is, by simply being incapable of finding fault with Israel at all?
If you call people like Finkelstein or myself ignorant, chances are you simply don’t know the facts or prefer to bury your head in the sand re Israel.
Dershowitz? Bigot. There, accept that.
And please do keep reading….

]]> By: Jenny Cockburn http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/#comment-259726 Jenny Cockburn Sat, 04 Jun 2005 11:02:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/#comment-259726 Your comments and put-downs do nothing but stifle debate in a time when it should be encouraged. Rather than deal with facts you see the situations as purely black and white. In this regard you are as bad as G.W. Bush when he said "You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists."<br/><br/>You think you can get away with calling books like "The Case for Israel" dillusional? How about actually coming up with a counterpoint to some of his arguments then.<br/><br/>People as ignorantly blinded as yourself will never be part of the solution. You breed hatered through ignorance to further your own career.<br/><br/>You should be ashamed of yourself. Your comments and put-downs do nothing but stifle debate in a time when it should be encouraged. Rather than deal with facts you see the situations as purely black and white. In this regard you are as bad as G.W. Bush when he said “You’re either with us, or you’re with the terrorists.”

You think you can get away with calling books like “The Case for Israel” dillusional? How about actually coming up with a counterpoint to some of his arguments then.

People as ignorantly blinded as yourself will never be part of the solution. You breed hatered through ignorance to further your own career.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

]]> By: Antony Loewenstein http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/#comment-259692 Antony Loewenstein Tue, 31 May 2005 11:59:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/#comment-259692 Israel and the other Arab states are very different, in terms of US aid received, running an illegal occupation etc.<br/>I denounce human rights abuses in the Arab world (god knows why that makes pro-Israelites feel better). This blog talks constantly about a lack of press freedom in the region.<br/>Israel calls itself a democracy. For Jews, it certainly is. For others, less so. Why do supporters of Israel feel so uncomfortable with the true facts of Israeli oppression? Oh, I forgot, Jews can't commit oppression, that's only for the Arabs... Israel and the other Arab states are very different, in terms of US aid received, running an illegal occupation etc.
I denounce human rights abuses in the Arab world (god knows why that makes pro-Israelites feel better). This blog talks constantly about a lack of press freedom in the region.
Israel calls itself a democracy. For Jews, it certainly is. For others, less so. Why do supporters of Israel feel so uncomfortable with the true facts of Israeli oppression? Oh, I forgot, Jews can’t commit oppression, that’s only for the Arabs…

]]> By: Bruce M Warrington http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/#comment-259691 Bruce M Warrington Tue, 31 May 2005 07:43:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/#comment-259691 I must say I find this "singling out Israel" claim tiresome. I don't seem to recall a similar demand for Bush, Blair, Howard, etc. to "balance" their criticisms of Saddam's regime; nor has there ever been a concern that anti-Palestinian criticism be "balanced" with denunciation of the occupation.<br/><br/>It is also worth remembering that, while anyone can criticise acts they have no hope of controlling or influencing, true moral courage requires a focus on one's own actions; a point Chomsky repeatedly makes. Israel is part of the West, and receives huge amounts of military aid, especially from the US. It is thus far more susceptible to our pressure than a hostile Arab regime like Saddam's. Consequently, it is a greater moral imperative for Westerners to stop Israeli abuses than Arab ones (and even <i>more</i> imperative of course to stop abuses by our own governments). I must say I find this “singling out Israel” claim tiresome. I don’t seem to recall a similar demand for Bush, Blair, Howard, etc. to “balance” their criticisms of Saddam’s regime; nor has there ever been a concern that anti-Palestinian criticism be “balanced” with denunciation of the occupation.

It is also worth remembering that, while anyone can criticise acts they have no hope of controlling or influencing, true moral courage requires a focus on one’s own actions; a point Chomsky repeatedly makes. Israel is part of the West, and receives huge amounts of military aid, especially from the US. It is thus far more susceptible to our pressure than a hostile Arab regime like Saddam’s. Consequently, it is a greater moral imperative for Westerners to stop Israeli abuses than Arab ones (and even more imperative of course to stop abuses by our own governments).

]]> By: Aaron Lane http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/#comment-259690 Aaron Lane Tue, 31 May 2005 07:23:00 +0000 http://antonyloewenstein.com/blog/2005/05/30/few-mates-for-alan/#comment-259690 If Israel is not the Middle East's only democracy, what is? Perhaps you could specify which country in the region you feel to be more democratic?<br/>Why, also, do you single out Israel for criticism when the criticisms you level could be just as validly applied to other nations? For instance, you support you academic boycott of Israel, but have made no intimation that you would support similar action if taken against any other country whose institutions could be seen to in some way support political regimes to which you are opposed. If someone were to single out an Arabic state in the same way you single out Israel, you would loudly and repeatedly denounce them as racist. What makes you repeated denunciations of Israel any different? If Israel is not the Middle East’s only democracy, what is? Perhaps you could specify which country in the region you feel to be more democratic?
Why, also, do you single out Israel for criticism when the criticisms you level could be just as validly applied to other nations? For instance, you support you academic boycott of Israel, but have made no intimation that you would support similar action if taken against any other country whose institutions could be seen to in some way support political regimes to which you are opposed. If someone were to single out an Arabic state in the same way you single out Israel, you would loudly and repeatedly denounce them as racist. What makes you repeated denunciations of Israel any different?

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